Dojo-Show-Go! Episode 154: Afterslash

We had to talk about 3DS’s new price this week, but that somehow led into more Wii U talk.

By M. Noah Ward. Posted 08/03/2011 08:00 13 Comments     ShareThis


Dojo-Show-Go! Episode 154: Afterslash

Adam, James and Noah discuss their unique reactions to 3DS’s price cut and tangent into how Wiii U may or may not avoid the same issues with its launch.

You can send in feedback to showmail at nintendojo dot com, or! You can also leave a comment below!

Recording Date
August 2, 2011

Noah, James and Adam

00:00:00 Introduction
00:03:54 What We’re Playing
00:11:32 3DS Price Slash Reactions
00:30:22 Wii U’s Launch Risks
00:41:36 Warm Fuzzies Feedback
00:54:28 Conclusion & Fan Fiction Assignment
00:56:09 Credits

00:57:01 Total Length



13 Responses to “Dojo-Show-Go! Episode 154: Afterslash”

  • 576 points
    MegabusterLegends3 says...

    First of all, I miss the old ending… What happened to “Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiits Credits Time!”? That was so classic! I did like that we have new music.

    Anyway, another point I failed to mention was that Price Drop + Holidays = more 3DS units, which means more streetpass, which, in turn, means more Streetpass support. I don’t live in New York or any busy place like that, but I usually get at least 10 streetpass a week, and only 2 are from friends. Imagine if there were 2 million units in the country as opposed to the current number, Whatever it may be.

    Since you guys can’t seem to stop whining about new 3DS games, I figured I’d recommend some eShop Titles.

    First of all, we saw our first real eShop exclusive release last week, Let’s Golf 3D. While it sounds like a tacky iPhone port, it is surprisingly good. They pretty much rip off Mario Golf, which isn’t entirely a bad idea.

    As for DSiWare, I’ll pretty much give you my mini reviews on my entire library.

    Dark Void Zero: (7.5/10) Good, but waaaay too short

    Shantae: Risky’s Revenge: (9.5/10) Worth full retail, much less 12 bucks. WayForward’s best work. Support it now.

    Ivy the Kiwi? Mini: (9/10) Not worth retail, but for 5 bucks is insanely addictive and controls beautifully. (An Apple freak friend of mine said he liked it more than Angry Birds (!?))

    X-Scape: (8.5/10) At it’s worst, its a clunky homage to fractal arcade shooters. At its best, its an amazingly polished product that makes you want to keep coming back just for the visual treat. Just not quite worth 8 bucks.

    Thorium Wars: (2/10)Outside of some randomly fun boat bits, I loathe this game deeply. It’s my anti-Megaman Legends. This mini review leaves a bad taste in my mouth on its own.

    Antipole: (8.5)The eShop trailer looked promising, so I bought it on a whim. It was a much better whim than the one that got me (flinch) Thorium Wars (I just threw up a bit). Its grav-gun mechanics and emphasis on speed is very fun, and it controls smoothly. Lacks polish, but thats all. I’m hooked.

    10 Second Run: (5/10) Good in theory, but the controls are too sloppy. Good thing it’s only 2 bucks.

    Mario Vs Donkey Kong: March of the Minis!: (8.5/10) Well, it’s more Mario Vs Donkey Kong. I still prefer…

    Donkey Kong [94]: (10/10) Caught me completely by surprise, but this is the best controlling Mario game I have ever played. Period. This game spawned the Mini’s series, maybe once Mario got sick of doing it himself.

    Puzzle Quest: (9.5/10) Its Puzzle Quest… for five friggin dollars… Buy it, now.

    Art Style: Pictobits; (8.5/10) A great puzzle game in its own right, it also tickles the nostalgia funny bone. Points docked for length as well as choice of source material. (I mean, games based off of NES Baseball, Carpenter Crew, and Devil World, but no Metroid? No Kid Icarus? )

    Bomberman Blitz: (7.5/10) You want Bomberman DS lite, you got it.

    Spotto: (1/10) Its a really great, cheap game, but as a Nintendo published game, it should have starred Yoshi. Bird throwing bombs at ghosts = Yoshi throwing eggs at Boos. We need more Yoshi.

    I have more here, but these are the honorable mentions. I don’t expect you to read em all, but feel free to pick a few you find interesting, maybe ones you haven’t heard of before, or didn’t realize were good (or bad).

    • 1332 points
      Andrew Hsieh says...

      Haven’t played all of these, but definitely agree on Ivy the Kiwi. I only played the Wii retail one, but I’m assuming the mini one is just as addictive. I mean, just figuring out how many hilarious ways to kill Ivy is–

      I mean, save her. She’s. Very saveable.

      • 576 points
        MegabusterLegends3 says...

        The Wii Retail version was probably the worst version. The DS version controls like a dream. It was meant to be a downloadable game all along. It would be great to see similar treatments to other shorter form DS games, like Yoshi Touch and Go or Metroid Prime Pinball.

  • 432 points
    dmgice says...

    I think that Noah should buy a 3DS at a place that does price match/fixes a week before the price drop (which is now) and then get the adjustment after the price drop. That way he gets the 20 free titles and the price drop. I also feel that James makes very little sense.


    They don’t have to do anything for you. Providing free games is a nice gesture. Also, GameStop may still have a few GBA units or games left; but they officially discontinued buying them back months ago. So, the idea that you can just swing by your local GameStop and pick up the GBA SP and all the games in the Ambassador Program is just folly. If you DO find one, they want $40 for it and the games run from $1.99 for some of the really common shovelware titles to $30 for some of the Nintendo titles. I think Yoshi’s Island is currently running at almost $20 in some GameStop locations. So, Nintendo is giving you a lot more GBA for a much better price (free) than if you went out and bought each of those games used at GameStop. If you bought them used at Game Stop, you pay almost $80 right there. They don’t sell NES titles.

    The GameCube sold under 22 million units worldwide; but it was also a miserable failure. It sold less than the N64 and it launched with 12 titles, none of which were Sonic Adventure 2 Battle. In fact, there were only two Nintendo developed titles for it at launch. Let’s look at them actually.

    All-Star Baseball 2002 PORT
    Batman Vengeance PORT
    Crazy Taxi PORT
    Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2 PORT
    Disney’s Tarzan Untamed PORT
    Luigi’s Mansion ORIGINAL TITLE
    Madden NFL 2002 PORT
    NHL Hitz 20-02 PORT
    Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader SEQUEL/ORIGINAL TITLE
    Super Monkey Ball PORT
    Tony Hawk’s Pro Skater 3 PORT
    Wave Race: Blue Storm SEQUEL/ORIGINAL TITLE

    How many of those were high scoring titles? Actually, none of them were getting 9’s from any of the mainstream magazines. Within the first four months of the system’s life it got a total of about 29 games in the United States. Granted, it got Super Smash Bros. Melee, Sonic 2 Battle, and Pikmin within that time window. Then it was hit with a horrible drought for the next few months. It didn’t have a Resident Evil title within the first four months. It had a reasonable launch and -by his own admission- Iwata stated that the Game Cube should have had a drastic price reduction -at least in Japan- earlier on. In fact, the launch of the Game Cube caused a drop in Nintendo’s stock. People also complained that not enough games were coming out for the system, DESPITE Pikmin (which sold horribly) and Super Smash Bros. Melee being available the next month. This was without a major natural tragedy hitting Japan, mind you. Oh, the Game Cube sold almost 800,000 units in the United States by the end of those first four months.

    In the first four months of the 3DS, we’ve got it launching with 19 games, five of which are Nintendo developed across two franchises and an original IP. In the first four months, we have three “hardcore” fighting games, and then a working launch for the eShop that adds Virtual Console/DSi Ware and 3D downloadable software. Yes, the system has a lot of ports. However, it does have more games than the Game Cube had in its first four months. It also got a Resident Evil title and a Legend of Zelda title way before the Game Cube did. This is with the horrible set backs in development caused by the earthquake. At over 4 million units sold worldwide, the 3DS has sold more than the Game Cube did in its first four months worldwide without a Smash Bros. title.

    Looking at the upcoming games, I’m looking forward to Pokemon Rumble Blast, Cave Story 3D, Devil Survivor Overclocked, Dr. Lautrec, Star Fox 64 3D, Mario Kart 7, Super Mario 3D Land, Bit Trip Saga, Harvest Moon: The Tale of Two Towns, Nano Assault, Kid Icarus, Shinobi, Sonic Generations, and Tales of the Abyss. I still need to pick up Resident Evil: Mercenaries and Pac-Man/Galaga Dimensions. I currently own Blazblue, SSF4 3D, The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D, Dead or Alive Dimensions, Super Monkey Ball 3D (Odd that both the 3DS and the GameCube launched with one), Rayman 3D, Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars, Ridge Racer 3D. I still think the price -not the game line up- may be the leading factor in slow adoption of the system.

    tl;dr: Noah should buy a 3DS now and then price match the adjustment. Also, James is bloviating facetiously, maybe you should distract him with Uncharted’s awful character designs by showing him Firefly. It’s probably on Netflix Streaming.

    • 697 points
      Adam Sorice says...

      A few thoughts on that Mr. DmgIce, sir

      – Surely *all* forms of bloviating are facetious? I would think it hard to be otherwise
      – Sonic Adventure 2 Battle launched in some regions, I got it at launch.
      – You can’t *really* call Super Monkey Ball a port, can you? That’s like calling Street Fighter Iv a port.
      – I don’t believe the earthquake is to blame for any gaming delays, the Japanese work ethic is crazy. When the quake hit, supermarket workers were holding up the shelves to protect the products. So I think the company has enough dedication to their work to get it done in a timely fashion
      – What’s the point of having a Zelda if it’s a port? Nintendo could have ported Ocarina to the GCN for launch but that would have been pointless.
      – Zelda (and especially Ocarina) is more popular than Smash, Nintendo overhauled the most celebrated game in history and still the console is flagging.

      You do make some good arguments but the situations are different. Nintendo was already behind in the consoles wars after the N64 and the GameCube just continued that trailing behind trend. On the other hand, the DS has been one of the most if not the most successful console ever and to go from that meteoric success to a severe price cut just five months after release is of significant worry.

      As we discussed on the podcast, I do believe software is the issue. I’m currently working on an article for next week discussing Nintendo’s software strategy and looking at the differences between 2011 and the past. I’m sure you’ll find it interesting reading :)

      • 432 points
        dmgice says...

        Calling Super Monkey Ball a port is correct because it is. It’s a port of the Dreamcast game with some added features and upgraded graphics. (Kind of like that Ocarina of Time “port” that James seems to be so down on.)

        The console “flagging” despite selling better than the Game Cube did in it’s first 4 months is due to price and price economy. People complained about a lack of games on the Wii and still bought it. They complained about a drought of games on the Nintendo DS and on the Game Cube. Although they didn’t flock to the Game Cube, the DS did okay. The only real barrier the 3DS has had is price. As of August 12th, that barrier will be gone.

        I know that we believe good software sells systems; but times have changed to a point where that has been horribly warped. Software (period) sells units; but the quality of the software is not the reason anymore. The price economy of the software is now the driving factor. Now $249.99 was a “wait for Christmas” device; but at $169.99, the 3DS is going to be difficult to find this Fall and neigh impossible around Christmas.

        Of course, if we look at the downloadable aspects of the 3DS, we suddenly have a future fight between three distinct “models.”

        3DS: $169.99 price entry / Downloadable content prices starting at $1.99 to $11.99 (Shantae is the most expensive title.)
        iPod Touch: $229.99 / $0.99 to $999.99 (Store sets price.)
        PS Vita: $249.99 / $1.49 $39.99 (Minis to PSP titles)

        Out of those, the most cost effective for entry is the 3DS, followed by the iPod Touch. The Vita -unless there is a drastic price drop or an original Monster Hunter title within the launch window- is dead on arrival. I love how James feels that Sony -which has never had a launch without tons of problems- is paying attention. The Vita will be interesting; but there’s no real market aside from hardcore Sony fans in the United States.

        tl;dr: It’s not the quality or quantity of software anymore, it’s the price economy. After August 12th, the 3DS will have the best price economy. To quote Bill Clinton: “It’s the economy, stupid.”

      • 432 points
        dmgice says...

        “- I don’t believe the earthquake is to blame for any gaming delays, the Japanese work ethic is crazy. When the quake hit, supermarket workers were holding up the shelves to protect the products. So I think the company has enough dedication to their work to get it done in a timely fashion.”

        Guess what! In the REAL WORLD, you need reliable electricity to develop games. When you have rolling blackouts and brownouts for months after the earthquake, it tends to remove the electricity that you need to develop games. Work Ethic or not, you can not do computer based work when there is no computer with electricity to work on.

        If you were driving to someone’s house that was 30 minutes away (they don’t have a car), and your car breaks down ten miles from the house. So, upon walking the last ten miles, is it YOUR FAULT that you were late by half an hour to an hour? “Should have walked faster! Where is your walk ethic?”

        tl:dr: In order to make games that use electricity to compile, you have to have ELECTRICITY. Holding up a shelf at Grezzo doesn’t complete a game.

  • 697 points
    Adam Sorice says...

    No games have been delayed by the earthquake. The DS was the most successful system in history. A cheaper 3DS will not make a difference without the right software.

    • 432 points
      dmgice says...

      Games were delayed and also out right canceled due to the earthquake.

      • 697 points
        Adam Sorice says...

        And were any of these games titles that were likely to change the fortune of the 3DS? All I can find of remote relevance was that Steel Diver was delayed from being a launch title, even though it was a launch title in America. It’s not like Mario Kart 7 was going to release in August before the tsunami and then was pushed back to the holiday period.

  • 576 points
    MegabusterLegends3 says...

    For all we know, some of the games could have. I hate to beat a dead horse here, but maybe Megaman Legends 3 was canceled because of the quake. Games like My Garden 3D might have been canceled right away because the devs realized that they weren’t worth the extra costs to continue developing them. However, for bigger titles, developers might have tried to muscle through the extra costs caused by blackouts and quake damage, until they realized that (A) the game’s quality was damaged somehow or data was lost and not retainable by a reasonable deadline, or (B) that the 3DS was not the rampaging success everyone thought it was going to be, and the extra costs were not worth the install base, especially when the title is not a potential system seller. I seem to remember Capcom did have some problems after the quake, but all that we heard then was that some MvC3 DLC had been delayed. It is of note that the MML3 devroom went silent for a time, and when the developers DID start talking again, they had more to say about their breakfast than the game itself, signs that progress on the game had indeed been slowed. It could be that it held on as long as it did BECAUSE it had such a huge following, but it might have come to a point where it was either MML3 or Resident Evil: Revelations. RE was farther along and had wider appeal, so they went with that.

    Canceled/delayed games are…

    Bomberman 3D CANCELLED
    Bonk (Working Title) CANCELLED
    Metal Gear Solid SnakeEater DELAYED
    MML 3 (duh) CANCELLED *sob*
    Assasins Creed 3D DELAYED, then CANCELLED
    Saints Row 3D CANCELLED
    Crush 3D DELAYED

    All of them are hardcore games I was looking forward to. No one is going to tell me that none of these games could have changed 3DS’s fortunes. I understand not all of these can be blamed by the Earthquake, but even the ones that are coming soon and seemingly unaffected (aka Ocarina of Time) might have been ready sooner and were simply delayed long before they were even shown, and therefore, the public was not told they even happened. What would a developer say? “Unnanounced game has been delayed”? This might be why Nintendo had a “Launch Window”, because a lot of their devs might have still been counting the costs in time the quake cost. Even companies not hit by the quake might have been affected, since employees might have been taking care of friends and family, or maybe even mourning. They are human, not game making machines.

    BTW, these theories came to me when I had to cancel Yonkey Donk County 3 on Game Dev Story after a black out hit my studio. Obviously, it does happen.

    Wow, this was meant to be a short comment

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